Tags: way

15 Jul 2009, Comments Off

Tank, Tankless or Thankless

Author: admin

Is going “tankless” as liberating as it sounds? Is owning a tankless water heater a solid indication that you’re saving money while reducing environmental damage?

Your answer to these questions may depend on whether you own or are buying a newly-constructed home versus living in or purchasing an existing, decades-old property.

Conventional water heaters heat litres of stored water which is kept hot 24/7, even when there is no demand. Tankless units are heaters which heat water on demand, then stop.

First of all, don’t get sanctimonious if your tankless water heater was part of the features of the new home you bought or had built. Starting from scratch and incorporating energy-efficient, environmentally-friendly systems during construction is always easier, and usually less expensive, than retrofitting, or adding a modern system to an older home.

The benefits and cost-considerations of tankless water heaters in new homes can make this installation a feasible if not a preferred alternative to conventional tank-style heaters. New home construction standards are normally higher than those that existed for homes built in the last century or earlier. New plumbing, electrical, sound-proofing and other systems favour optimum installation and operation of tankless water heaters and other modern technologies.

If you own or want to buy an existing property, your commitment to reducing “your footprint” and saving energy may not be enough to make tankless water heaters the right way to achieve your environmental and financial goals. You can still have an energy-efficient, green home with a conventional water heater, but you’ll just have to go about it differently.

One of the most important lessons to learn about the current rush toward “green” is that there are just as many inappropriate applications of good ideas and over-sold environmental or energy-efficient solutions as there are “right fits.”

Don Fugler, Senior Researcher in Policy and Research at Canada’s national housing agency, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC), is currently managing CMHC’s initial tankless field project designed to determine the actual savings gained when converting from a well-functioning conventional water heater to a tankless unit.

“Basically, what we hear is that tankless water heaters do save energy in a lot of cases, but what is not necessarily established so far, is what people should expect,” said Fugler. “It is probably different from the theoretical savings–that you just calculate based on efficiencies. What house usage is unlikely to get significant savings? The fact [is] that water heater usage or homeowner draws on hot water are a lot different in reality than they are modelled in standards. This makes a difference because the way they are modelled in standards actually benefits tankless water heaters. I don’t think they set it up this way, it just does.”

Tankless water heaters are not a new idea, just relatively new to Canadians. In retrofit situations, they may not always be practical, cost-effective or feasible. Fugler offered a few issues to consider in evaluating whether tankless is right for you:

  • Net result may not be a gain “Part of the problem, or part of the solution, is tank heaters lose their heat to the house….So even though a conventional water heater does lose heat, it is seen to be heating your house and that is an asset for two thirds of the year…. In Canada, which is more a heating than a cooling climate, tankless is only going to have a third of the advantage that it may have in a cooling climate.” Fugler explains that expected savings from converting to tankless may not materialize because, while fuel consumption by the water heater may go down, fuel consumption to replace heat to the house may increase. This has been found for shifts to high-efficiency furnace fans and CFL light bulbs.
  • Billing disappointment The quoted percent of savings should be applied to the portin of the gas or electric bill represented by the water heater. With all the charges piled confusingly on a gas bill, an absolute savings may not be visible. If you expect to save significant amounts, you may be disappointed.
  • Pay back clarity For the two reasons above, the quoted pay back time may be hard to calculate or much longer than stated. Sales representations would normally include best case scenarios. Where hot water bills are high, savings could be more noticeable. With low or conservationist usage, the savings may be small and the pay back much longer.
  • Hot water delivery How long does it take hot water to arrive at the tap? Since home designs usually locate heaters in an otherwise unused corner of the basement, second-floor and higher bathrooms may be a long way off. Having to run water as long as 5 minutes to get the hot may result in wasted water. Low-flow shower heads increase delivery time. Anti-scald valves like those required in new homes may also interfere with hot water availability. Recirculation pumps may help this problem, but that’s another cost to consider.
  • Heating differential Municipal water may be very cold, requiring considerable fuel to heat it to the desired temperature. Drain water heat recovery installations recycle hot wastewater to heat up incoming cold water to warm by spiralling the wastewater piping around the intake pipe. However, this approach is only practical for those who regularly take long hot showers, not baths.
  • Flow limits and use patterns Tankless heaters have minimum flow limits, so they don’t heat water for small draws like rinsing your hands. Some users turn on a second tap to reach the flow threshold for hot water at the tap where they want low flow hot water. It is this type of water-waste pattern and other use changes that are of interest to Fugler in the current research project. To achieve maximum desired flow, particularly to have two or more simultaneous uses with lots of hot water, intake pipes may need to be increased to 3/4 inch from the conventional inch. In large, high-usage homes, more than one unit may be advisable.
  • Adequate fuel supply Gas supply input may need increasing to 3/4 inch pipe to achieve desired hot water flow. A comparable cost may be required to upgrade to a larger service panel for an electric tankless unit.
  • Venting and noise The exhaust gases and moisture from gas tankless water heaters are vented outside, not into a chimney, in a manner dictated by bylaws and codes. Proximity to neighbours may cause complaints about noise and condensation, or it may make the installation impossible. Decks and patios may also restrict venting choices. More expensive and higher efficiency condensing units may offer more venting flexibility, but installation costs may increase. If venting is not possible, an electric unit may be the only tankless alternative.

Tankless water heaters are expensive to purchase and installation in Canada. Fugler predicts that these and other issues will be resolved through technological advances and government regulation. Tankless water heaters will become the new normal in the decades ahead.

For now, invest in knowledge in advance of a purchase, or regret in hindsight…your choice. Don’t rely on salespeople or installers to make decisions for you. Buyer beware is the law. Buyer be aware is the solution.

http://www.homes101.net/news/n4655

brought by Moishe Alexander, CFC  Canadian Funding Corp CEO

Canadian Columnists Linda Leatherdale on 2008-05-04 posted on Canoe Money a timely article on the Canadian Housing Market – “Opening door on market”

“Some feverishly argue there’s no way Canada’s real estate market will crash and burn like the U.S. market, where one prominent analyst warns that the meltdown is more fast and furious than during the Great Depression”.

“Others say, get real: Canada’s largest trading partner is the United States, and if this one-time economic superstar is in a recession, we’re going down, too”.

Read the full article here.

The Royal Bank of Scotland recently released an advisory to its clients to braise for a “global stock and credit crash” over the next 3 months. The UK housing market may not recover until 2015. The housing market and debts problems in the US and UK, record high energy and food prices could eventually drag Canada into a housing down turn as we experienced in 1995 to 2001. Except, this time the problem could be very much worse than what we experienced previously.

Greater Vancouver Housing Market

The Saunder School of Business’s housing chart for Greater Vancouver below shown that it took 8 years for the housing market to recover to it’s 1981 peak at around $240,000. The housing downturn from 1995’s peak at $420,000 took almost 9 years to recover. Using the charts presented here up to 2007, and plotting the trend lines for nominal and real prices, $540,000 seemed to be about the “right” price level where the Vancouver housing price should be. This represents a 30% to 35% price differential below the current Vancouver nominal and real housing prices.

The price gains over the past 30 over years is attributed to excessive liquidity and priming of the money pump, we have over-shot the price gain by 30% to 35%. If the housing down turn is going to hit Canada, we could be facing a more serious price decline from that happening in 1981 and 1995. Click here for the latest news on Richmond’s real estate market.

The chart below for Greater Vancouver from the Real Estate Board of Vancouver plotting housing data up to May 2008 confirmed the sharp housing price gains that are “unsustainable”. The escalation in prices since 2002 to present out-paced the gains in the past 25 years.

Last week’s 400 plus points drop in the Dow could signal the big one is coming. Canada is unlikely to be insulated and not affected by the financial meltdown.

The debate as posted by Linda Leatherdale will continue. My take is that our real estate market is not so different from the US and UK. Our housing market is way over-priced and overly propped up by past years price appreciation. It is a matter of time we will face a painful price correction resulting in huge financial losses by many home owners. You are welcomed to post your comments.

http://activerain.com/blogsview/573085/the-canadian-real-estate-debate-goes-on

Earlier, some of the elements that characterize IDP were presented, but it is also worthwhile considering a few overarching factors that need to be present for a successful integrated design process.

Client Buy-in

The client has to be fully aware of how IDP is better and has to be fully committed to it. This commitment includes an understanding that while the potential rewards from pursuing integrated design are great, the process will distribute the design teams time differently and most likely produce designs that are different than what they have been used to seeing.
IDP should be a net time saver but upfront time will take longer and late stages will take less. Specified equipment and systems are likely to be different, and the most successful projects are those the client understands and shares potential risks arising from new approaches.
The client needs to make it clear who the decision-maker(s) are and commit to having decision-makers present at all the key meetings.
The client has to change the way the team gets paid. IDP is not commodity-based design, by which I mean, design where the team gets paid by the pound (or a percentage of building cost, which amounts to the same thing). This form of compensation assumes that all design is pretty much the same, with the effort expended being directly related to building cost. Instead, the team should be compensated for brains, not stuff.
If compensation is not changed, working harder or smarter only to see your fee reduced, limits the enthusiasm and creativity of even the most dedicated professional. There are several ways of changing compensation. One approach that some IDP practitioners have found to be successful is to negotiate a separate fee for the early, creative phase, where the effort involved is relatively independent of project size. The later phases, which allow to complete the design and drawings, are more closely related to project size and the fees can be more properly linked to size.
Clients also need to be prepared to share at least some of the potential risks when they demand extremely high performance or technologies that do not have a long track record. In these cases the client should not expect the designers or contractors to assume the risk and expect the building to cost the same as a regular building with lower risk. This is not a common IDP situation, but it has happened.

Mindset

The importance of the right mindset or attitude for all team members is hard to exaggerate. Some key attributes of the required mindset are as follows:
Commitment to the process and ownership for your part in it.
Thinking in whole system terms to optimize the project as a whole, not value-engineer individual components.
Willingness to measure, benchmark and quantify performance.
Active listening and openness to learning from other team member.
Asking the right questions, in an openended way, that will lead to new answers, rather than arriving with preconceived answers.
Awareness and respect for team roles and dynamics, valuing all contributions.

Goal Setting

Critical to success are clear and measurable goals based on a shared understanding and vision of what is to be achieved. Not every goal need be a BHAG (Big Hairy Audacious Goal) but they should be SMART; Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, Time-bounded.
President Kennedy’s “man on the moon” speech in the early 1960s, says Moishe Alexander, is often cited as an example, for good reason. It was inspirational because it had all the right characteristics. It was specific and measurable (put a man on the moon and bring him back safely) and time-bounded (by the end of the decade). No one was completely sure at the beginning whether it was achievable or realistic, but as a stretch goal that was not too far ahead of what was thought possible, it created its own momentum. Goals like these are motivational.
In green building terms, the goals should be set at a whole building level, such as a LEED Gold standard, but also for specific performance attributes that make sense for a project. Some real-world examples of goals that have been set (and met) on Canadian green building projects include:
60 per cent better energy performance than MNECB – EMS Fleet Centre, Cambridge, ON
95 per cent diversion of construction waste from landfill – Vancouver Island Technology Park
Zero discharge of sewage waste water – MEC Winnipeg Store
50 per cent of all materials supplied from within 800 km – BC Cancer Research Institute
75 per cent of the new building constructed from materials from the old building on site – MEC Winnipeg Store
Elimination of mechanical air-conditioning system, while retaining occupant comfort – Liu Centre, Vancouver